00:08
Matthew Bastian
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the first episode of Believe Everything. I am your host, Matthew Bastian.
00:14
Abby Jerchower
And I am your other host, Abby Jerchower. And today we're going to be talking.
00:18
Matthew Bastian
About conspiracy theories, particularly Illuminati. How this works is every episode, one of us will do the research and the other will react to that research in real time and as it's told to them. And along the way, you'll be able to answer questions with Abby.
00:35
Abby Jerchower
Yes. Today, Matthew is the one that did all the research, which is great news for me because I can just sit back and take in all this. This new information. I feel very excited for today's episode because the Illuminati has also been. Always been something that I've been interested about, and I hear a lot about it, but I feel like I'm not educated on its origins. And I'm ready for that.
00:55
Matthew Bastian
Right? It's, It's. It is. It is a very interesting story. And what I found, like, the most interesting while researching it is just like, just so much.
01:08
Abby Jerchower
I feel like you can't spoil it. You can't spoil it yet.
01:12
Matthew Bastian
That's what I realized. Like, you started talking about the best. I was like, I can't. I can't keep talking. So without further ado. Why not? We'll just jump into it. Can I not say without further ado?
01:26
Abby Jerchower
No, you can. It's cool.
01:29
Matthew Bastian
Without further ado. Let's just jump on into it. Beautiful. All right, so quick. Over, over. All right, so a quick overview. The Illuminati is essentially a secret society founded upon ideals of bringing about a new world order. And while it's true it existed in the past, it was considered dangerous then. However, there is very little evidence of it existing to this day as they theorize. And so the original term Illuminati originates around the 1600s, essentially meaning, like, enlightened. And these enlightened people included those who believed they could create a direct connection to God. So it kind of the thing with the Illuminati is that they were. Well, you'll see, you'll see. I keep jumping ahead of myself.
02:22
Abby Jerchower
I don't give too much away now.
02:24
Matthew Bastian
All right, so the founder, his name is Adam Weishaupt. He's born ingolstadt, Germany, and he was placed under the care of the Jesuits, who at the time were the most influential group around the time in the region. And that's where he gained his early education. And at the age of 25, he rose to the position of Chairman of Natural and Canon Law at the University of Ingolstadt. So this guy's very ambitious guy.
02:50
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, that's.
02:51
Matthew Bastian
That's what I want you to.
02:53
Abby Jerchower
I. I got that impression when you said the founder. I thought were gonna be talking.
02:56
Matthew Bastian
About the McDonald's movie. No, no, I.
03:02
Abby Jerchower
This is cool, too, I guess.
03:03
Matthew Bastian
Now McDonald's is definitely cooler. So this guy, Adam Weishaupt, he's extremely interested in Enlightenment philosophers. Okay. He's. He reads all of their stuff. He's just completely absorbing every single one of their ideas. And these ideas greatly contradict Jesuit teachings and ideals of the time. And our. Of course, as we know about Enlightenment speakers, it. Very critical of governments that oppress or control their populations.
03:34
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
03:35
Matthew Bastian
So he was very much against that, and he felt like that's what he was seeing around the world, especially in Europe. And so his reading essentially led to this belief and life goal topple governments and religious institutions that contributed to the ideas of control and oppression. And he wanted to replace it with a selective committee spanning the globe. And this committee would unite the world under one sphere of influence and would prioritize morality and virtue, which is essentially the main idea of the Illuminati.
04:14
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. In its, like, purest form. It doesn't sound all that bad.
04:20
Matthew Bastian
That's the. Well, we'll get into it later. But it very much gets.
04:24
Abby Jerchower
Oh, I'm sure could.
04:26
Matthew Bastian
I mean. But yeah, it's a noble cause.
04:33
Abby Jerchower
I think you could say that. I don't know. It's noble, I guess, a little bit.
04:40
Matthew Bastian
I mean. Okay. I feel like it's pretty okay to say that it's. You want to unite the world and, like, well, under one sphere of influence. A little questionable. I feel like that's a little authoritarian, if you think about it.
04:54
Abby Jerchower
All right, that's a good point.
04:55
Matthew Bastian
But it would prioritize morality and virtue.
04:58
Abby Jerchower
So it kind of cancels out.
05:02
Matthew Bastian
I don't know. That's above my station, but. Pay grade. Sorry. All right. Anyway, the idea of the Illuminati is born. All right, so here we come to our first question.
05:21
Abby Jerchower
Already. Okay.
05:23
Matthew Bastian
Are you ready?
05:23
Abby Jerchower
I'm ready.
05:24
Matthew Bastian
Okay. All right, question one.
05:26
Abby Jerchower
Okay.
05:27
Matthew Bastian
Which of the following quotes were attributed to the founder of the Illuminati, Adam Weishaupt, not Ray Kroc.
05:33
Abby Jerchower
Okay.
05:34
Matthew Bastian
Okay, answer A. The image is one thing and the human being is another.
05:40
Matthew Bastian
It is very hard to live up to an image.
05:42
Abby Jerchower
That's a pretty solid quote. That's not crazy. I feel like you don't say That I feel.
05:47
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, I agree. B. Don't criticize what you don't understand, son. You've never walked in that man's shoes. No way.
05:56
Abby Jerchower
There's no way that's me. That sounds familiar to me.
06:00
Matthew Bastian
Really?
06:00
Abby Jerchower
Did some of these come from, like, or. Don't tell me this. That sounds familiar. I feel like I recognize this.
06:07
Matthew Bastian
All right. See, in the world of the privileged, all unprivileged people are invisible. The rich stare right through you as though you aren't there. Isn't it time you made yourself visible?
06:18
Abby Jerchower
Ooh, I kinda liked that one.
06:21
Matthew Bastian
You like that one?
06:22
Abby Jerchower
I feel like that would make me maybe want to join.
06:24
Matthew Bastian
You'd want to join? Would you be? Well.
06:29
Abby Jerchower
I don't know. I definitely don't think it's B. If it's B, I'm gonna sound really stupid.
06:33
Matthew Bastian
Okay.
06:34
Abby Jerchower
I think it's either A or C.
06:36
Matthew Bastian
But we still have one more left. Oh, there's D. There's D. Yeah.
06:39
Abby Jerchower
Oh, my God.
06:40
Matthew Bastian
There's so many options. All right, so I question or answer D. Okay. Man, I was tame compared to what they do now. Are you kidding? I didn't do anything but just jiggle.
06:55
Abby Jerchower
There's no way it's that one. Is that the last option?
06:59
Matthew Bastian
That's the. That's answer D.
07:02
Abby Jerchower
It can't be that.
07:05
Matthew Bastian
I'm.
07:05
Abby Jerchower
I'm looking at his face right now, and he's making a face that makes it. I can't tell. It's a good poker face.
07:12
Matthew Bastian
That's good to know. I've never thought I had a good poker face.
07:14
Abby Jerchower
It's like a good poker face in the sense that it's very. It's so bad that it starts to, like, curve back around and turn kind of good because you are so unsure about it.
07:25
Matthew Bastian
Thank you.
07:26
Abby Jerchower
Okay. Ruling out B because it sounds familiar to me. A is convincing. I think C is awesome because the way that it ends is crazy. Kind of super awesome and cool.
07:39
Matthew Bastian
D. It is a very final.
07:40
Abby Jerchower
Insane. I feel like you would pick D, though, because it's silly, but I'm gonna go with C. C is my final.
07:48
Matthew Bastian
C. Yeah, that's my final. You would be correct.
07:50
Abby Jerchower
Are you serious?
07:51
Matthew Bastian
It is answer C. The other ones were Elvis quotes.
07:57
Abby Jerchower
All of them were we. The jiggle one was Elvis.
08:00
Matthew Bastian
The jiggle one was Elvis. Yeah.
08:01
Abby Jerchower
Wow.
08:02
Matthew Bastian
Yeah.
08:02
Abby Jerchower
What a talented man.
08:03
Matthew Bastian
He was a wordsmith.
08:05
Abby Jerchower
Wait. I'm happy I got it right, though. I feel like I should win money.
08:09
Matthew Bastian
No.
08:09
Abby Jerchower
All right, all right.
08:10
Matthew Bastian
So the order. So the order itself, as we talked about previously, it sought topple the Church's control over information and free thought. Not the thought. Weishaupt initially considered joining the Freemasons, which is another kind of similar organization. And they were already pretty well established and they had a vaguely similar goal. But he eventually became disillusioned with them and ultimately decided to create his own group as we know it. So he chose his five most talented pupils to be the first members. And they had their first meeting in his birthplace of Ingolstadt to establish the rules of the society. So you're in class in like. You're in like your history class. What this guy do natural law, and he comes up to you and asks you if you want to join a secret society. What do you say? What do you.
09:05
Abby Jerchower
I would probably. Okay, I'd be inclined to say yes, but only I'd probably want more information.
09:13
Matthew Bastian
Right. Does it pay?
09:15
Abby Jerchower
Okay, I might ask that. I might ask, what is this society?
09:19
Matthew Bastian
What is this?
09:21
Abby Jerchower
Maybe the pay would not be like the first thing.
09:23
Matthew Bastian
What are you talking about?
09:24
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, maybe something like that. I need a little bit more clarity, right? But I feel like I'm always down to try something new and secret society, that's just another new thing.
09:33
Matthew Bastian
Topple the Church that could.
09:34
Abby Jerchower
Okay, well, he didn't say that to me, did he? Just probably.
09:38
Matthew Bastian
I feel like that's the idea.
09:39
Abby Jerchower
Okay, but if you just secret like nothing else just. Do you want to join my secret society?
09:44
Matthew Bastian
What would.
09:45
Abby Jerchower
I would say yes.
09:46
Matthew Bastian
There's so many. It could. It could be. There's so many guys.
09:51
Abby Jerchower
Any more information? Just secret society. What would you do? Ooh.
09:56
Matthew Bastian
And I get this question back. I'm assuming I get more information after.
10:00
Abby Jerchower
You say yes or no.
10:02
Matthew Bastian
Right?
10:02
Abby Jerchower
But you have to say yes or no.
10:05
Matthew Bastian
Okay, but what if I say yes, and then it's like the worst thing ever, and then it's like, okay, it's a question. I'll say yes. I'll say, you know what?
10:14
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, see? So what are we talking about?
10:16
Matthew Bastian
Try everything once. Try everything once.
10:17
Abby Jerchower
Try everything once. I agree with that.
10:19
Matthew Bastian
Probably not. It might not be the best decision.
10:22
Abby Jerchower
But at least, you know, I'd always be wondering, what was that society about?
10:26
Matthew Bastian
What it. What if I never said yes?
10:28
Abby Jerchower
Exactly.
10:29
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. All right. So soon after their first meeting, many of Europe's intellectual elite began to be initiated, united under ideals of upending the status quo. When restrictions to superstitious thought established by the church and they had rankings. So novice. These are the new recruits. And I have bottom of the food chain. And they are Enticed essentially by promises of wisdom and advancement into the cult and further into.
11:05
Abby Jerchower
That's probably where we would be if we said yes. Correct.
11:07
Matthew Bastian
Well, I feel like the first five are probably, like, I guess so.
11:12
Abby Jerchower
I don't see.
11:13
Matthew Bastian
The first meeting was to establish the rules. And I can't imagine being at that meeting and then you're like, yeah, I'll start at the bottom. Like, no, if I'm making the rules, I want to be. I am there. Yeah.
11:27
Abby Jerchower
I don't think you deserve that.
11:28
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. Thank you. I don't think you deserve it either.
11:31
Abby Jerchower
That's really kind.
11:31
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. The novices are not shown the inner workings of the organization or, like, any of the larger plans. And they also can't engage in conversation with or meet anyone at the higher level. So they're. They're really nothing. Like, it's like, what? Like. What do you. Like, what do you mean? Like, it's like, just, like, blind faith, I guess. So they're just sitting and, like, waiting for a call to action. Like, I don't understand. I. It'd make me mad. Me, personally, I'd be upset about it. Good to know that. Yeah.
12:04
Abby Jerchower
I won't put you down there. If I make a secret system.
12:07
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, you. If you do. I at least want to become a Minerval, which is segue.
12:13
Abby Jerchower
Good job.
12:14
Matthew Bastian
Thank you. They proved you. You move up from a novice when you've proved to be dedicated to the Order. However you show your dedication. I have no clue. And they essentially are illuminated on the Order's more spiritual. Spiritual principles and are taught these principles by the ones who are next up, which are the Illuminated Minervals. The Illuminated Minervals are select members of Minervals who are chosen to be the elite of the Order. They're given specific tasks to further the agenda of the Order. We're taught the ways of human nature and how to manipulate it.
12:59
Abby Jerchower
Oh.
12:59
Matthew Bastian
In order to.
13:00
Abby Jerchower
Dark psychology.
13:01
Matthew Bastian
Exactly. To get what they want in service of the Order. And they oversaw a small group of Minervals acting as a mentor or a guide. So essentially, Minervals and Illuminated Minervals is when you actually get to do anything remotely.
13:17
Abby Jerchower
Wow. There's a lot of.
13:18
Matthew Bastian
As far as I can tell, steps.
13:19
Abby Jerchower
To get a lot of levels in order to reach that.
13:22
Matthew Bastian
Most members were educated men and there were no women.
13:27
Abby Jerchower
What?
13:28
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. So they. Yeah, It's.
13:30
Abby Jerchower
That's the worst thing. The Illuminati.
13:31
Matthew Bastian
I know. To be so illuminated to exclude women from. From your Order. I feel like that's. It's a bit silly.
13:39
Abby Jerchower
It is silly. Because you could have gained a lot more control and power that way.
13:42
Matthew Bastian
Exactly. Like that's half the population.
13:44
Abby Jerchower
Like there are evil women out there. Okay.
13:47
Matthew Bastian
I would want to join.
13:49
Abby Jerchower
We have to remember that this is a situation, subset of people that we could utilize for the secret society.
13:56
Matthew Bastian
Right.
13:57
Abby Jerchower
That's what I would have said if.
13:58
Matthew Bastian
I was invited to Illuminati. Be at like, are you a part of it?
14:01
Abby Jerchower
No, I can't be as of yet. But maybe they'll start accepting us.
14:05
Matthew Bastian
Well, you can't be at all because they're God. But in the.
14:09
Abby Jerchower
That's what you think.
14:14
Matthew Bastian
But a lot of the professions of people who are in the Order included titles such as lawyers, doctors, writers, scholars and many more like them. And it's. There is like a little bit of evidence that I believe Mozart was a part of it. Mozart is kind of said to have been likely in the Illuminati, but no one's like, no one really knows for sure. That's kind of up in the air.
14:44
Abby Jerchower
Alright, guys, if you knew Mozart.
14:47
Matthew Bastian
Any of you who are like good friends with Mozart, if you could reach out to us, let us know if he was actually in the Illuminati, that would be really helpful.
14:54
Abby Jerchower
We would like to be able to say this as honest and truthfully as possible. So if we could have some confirmation.
15:00
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, we really just want to give you guys the most truthful information, like really imaginable. So that's why we need your guys help to contact us.
15:15
Abby Jerchower
All right, all right, what's the next point?
15:16
Matthew Bastian
So, yeah, the group was small in 1776, but by the year 1784, the order had grown to somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 members. So pretty sizable.
15:29
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, that's impressive.
15:30
Matthew Bastian
Not entirely globe spanning, because they were just women all across Europe. And yes, you were correct. There were no women. And they had lodges in Italy, France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Switzerland. So it was mostly concentrated in central Europe.
15:52
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
15:54
Matthew Bastian
And this ended up being the height of the Order. So it never really evolved much past that. And we'll get into that in a moment. But for now we have question two. What the heck?
16:13
Abby Jerchower
All right, what's question two, bro?
16:15
Matthew Bastian
So, yeah, question two. Which of the following were actual contenders for the name of the Illuminati? So first we have a covenant of perfect ability. B, the conglomerate of truth. C, Society of the mind. Ooh. Or D, the New World Order.
16:36
Abby Jerchower
Okay, I feel like some of these are familiar to me. I feel like you're duping me on These with the Elvis thing.
16:44
Matthew Bastian
Now I'm duping you.
16:45
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. I feel like these are all gonna be like Elvis.
16:48
Matthew Bastian
These are all Elvis songs.
16:50
Abby Jerchower
These are all Elvis.
16:51
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. The Society of the New World. The Conglomerate of Truth.
16:57
Abby Jerchower
That might be my favorite one because I like the word conglomerate.
17:01
Matthew Bastian
Whoa.
17:01
Abby Jerchower
Conglomerate.
17:02
Matthew Bastian
I like that. I've always. I've always liked that word as well.
17:04
Abby Jerchower
Okay.
17:05
Matthew Bastian
Word.
17:08
Abby Jerchower
I've actually always loved that word. Oh, God. I might have to go with. What was the last one you said?
17:17
Matthew Bastian
The New World Order.
17:18
Abby Jerchower
I like that one a lot. Or Society of. What was the Society?
17:21
Matthew Bastian
Society of the Mind.
17:22
Abby Jerchower
I like that one.
17:23
Matthew Bastian
I'm gonna go with that. You're gonna go with that?
17:25
Abby Jerchower
Mm. Was that C?
17:26
Matthew Bastian
That would be. Yeah, that was C. And that would be incorrect. Unfortunately, the correct answer was Covenant of Perfect Ability.
17:34
Abby Jerchower
That was my least favorite one.
17:36
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, well, that's why they didn't go with it. Yeah, that's actually a good point.
17:40
Abby Jerchower
That's a good point.
17:41
Matthew Bastian
I. Do you think the Order of the Illuminati is better than all of them?
17:46
Abby Jerchower
I like Conglomerate. We were. We were just bonding over conglomerates, so I feel like that was a good one. I like the Society. Society of Truth.
17:54
Matthew Bastian
Right.
17:55
Abby Jerchower
I like that one. I think that was.
17:56
Matthew Bastian
It was Society of the Mind, then it was the Conglomerate of Truth.
17:59
Abby Jerchower
I think they should have combined those two and made it Society of the Truth.
18:04
Matthew Bastian
Why didn't they have me there? Like, I like.
18:06
Abby Jerchower
You did not combine those things.
18:08
Matthew Bastian
I came up with those. I came up with the question.
18:10
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, but I just combined the two.
18:12
Matthew Bastian
And made it better. You don't think I could combine them? No.
18:15
Abby Jerchower
Your mind is stuck. I've.
18:19
Matthew Bastian
There's like gum in the gears.
18:22
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, I think you.
18:23
Matthew Bastian
Yeah.
18:24
Abby Jerchower
Whenever I talk about combining them, you're like, well, you gotta remember that this one was C and this one was D. But Society of the Truth. You guys heard it here first. Society of Truth, made by Abby Jershower with no outside help.
18:39
Matthew Bastian
Is that.
18:39
Abby Jerchower
Your Truth is gonna be.
18:40
Matthew Bastian
The secret society. Okay. Yeah. That's good.
18:43
Abby Jerchower
Email us if you'd like to be a part of it.
18:45
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, let us know. All right. So the collapse. I know. It's very unfortunate. The Duke of Bavaria named Carl Theodore, sees the power being accrued by the Order in the organization and other organizations like it, and begins to fear them. Because it's all these elite guys, and they're like, you know, meddling and.
19:10
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, it's a little freaky.
19:13
Matthew Bastian
It's like bugs in your brain. Like, that's what that's how this guy saw him. Not his words, but.
19:20
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. I don't think he would ever.
19:21
Matthew Bastian
Analogy. And I will stand by it.
19:23
Abby Jerchower
All right. I don't know if anyone.
19:26
Matthew Bastian
To death. Yep.
19:27
Abby Jerchower
All right, man.
19:27
Matthew Bastian
And about fearful of them and about what kind of control they can exercise over him if they were left alone. So essentially, he doesn't like fun. And this led to the ban of secret societies at large in 1785. No, I know. No. Oh, my God.
19:46
Abby Jerchower
If I could go back in time and change one thing in the whole.
19:48
Matthew Bastian
Wide world, change that, it would be that I feel like tears welt. Like.
19:52
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, put that on record. Because I feel that way, and I'll always feel that way.
19:56
Matthew Bastian
I used to say tears. Welting up.
19:58
Abby Jerchower
Welting.
19:58
Matthew Bastian
Welting.
19:59
Abby Jerchower
That's like scrumbled. That word's not a real word.
20:03
Matthew Bastian
It's not a real word, guys.
20:05
Abby Jerchower
I don't think so. What if it is?
20:07
Matthew Bastian
Scrumble's not a word.
20:08
Abby Jerchower
All right. Anyway, we can be past that.
20:11
Matthew Bastian
This led to the ban of secret societies at large in 1785, including the order of the Illuminati. The tears are welting in my eyes. This ban expanded two years later, proclaiming that punishment for continued membership would include the death penalty.
20:26
Abby Jerchower
Oh, my God.
20:28
Matthew Bastian
Yeah.
20:28
Abby Jerchower
The death penalty for being a part of a seeker society.
20:31
Matthew Bastian
Like, being a part of, like, a little club.
20:33
Abby Jerchower
Is this all because of the Duke?
20:36
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. No. Yeah. The Duke of Bavaria. He did not like them. He was afraid.
20:42
Abby Jerchower
He's scared. So then he made everyone that wanted to join One die. Yeah, he could have just joined it. Right. I feel like he just did that because he felt.
20:49
Matthew Bastian
That's a good point. I mean, if you're the king and you join the group, you're automatically the most powerful one because you have control.
20:55
Abby Jerchower
You do not have to be. Is it the novice? You could definitely enter the novice.
20:59
Matthew Bastian
He can't do anything.
21:01
Abby Jerchower
I feel like he can.
21:04
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, that's a good point.
21:06
Abby Jerchower
Maybe that's why he was worried, because he saw the levels like, I can't. I can't move.
21:10
Matthew Bastian
I really want to join, but I'd be a novice and won't be able to do anything. It's like being benched the whole time. Ooh. Analogy.
21:18
Abby Jerchower
Analogy. That you can relate to, probably.
21:22
Matthew Bastian
I didn't play sports, so not really.
21:26
Abby Jerchower
All right.
21:26
Matthew Bastian
Historical records of the Illuminati's activities and pretty much after that band after the ban. But conspiracies involving them have be since then, have begun to have the rise that's when conspiracies really, you know, they were a real thing. It's not really conspiracy if they exist. Everyone knows it. Exactly. But this is when it truly starts to get the ball rolling. So it, like I said, it started pretty much immediately after they were disbanded. And so conspiracies revolving around or involving the Order began with this guy. Abbe Augustin Borrell wrote a four part history of the French Revolution and ultimately attributed the Revolution to the work of the Illuminati, orchestrating everything behind the scenes.
22:24
Abby Jerchower
This guy's like our. Our leader.
22:26
Matthew Bastian
He's our leader.
22:28
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, he's the conspiracist.
22:30
Matthew Bastian
He. People have called him the. The very first conspiracy theorist.
22:36
Abby Jerchower
Makes sense that we're doing Illuminati then. I feel like that's such an iconic one.
22:40
Matthew Bastian
Exactly, exactly. It's. It's an. It's an oldie but a goodie. Many accused Thomas Jefferson of being in the Illuminati. He denied it.
22:50
Abby Jerchower
Why?
22:51
Matthew Bastian
I know.
22:52
Abby Jerchower
I don't feel like I would have just said, yeah, I'm not even joking.
22:55
Matthew Bastian
Why not? Fear me. Fear me. Why not?
23:01
Abby Jerchower
No, but honestly, I feel like if I was a powerful figure and someone is like, are you part of the Illuminati? I would just lie to them and sure, yeah, okay.
23:08
Matthew Bastian
Why not?
23:09
Abby Jerchower
Now everyone's scared. Yeah, exactly.
23:12
Matthew Bastian
I think it's a very effective way of. Of just showing everyone who's boss.
23:17
Abby Jerchower
I second that.
23:18
Matthew Bastian
Even if you're the president. The Russian Revolution was also said by many conspiracy theorists to have been orchestrated by the Illuminati. And the.
23:28
Abby Jerchower
Why would they want that?
23:30
Matthew Bastian
Why did. Why would they want that? Yeah, why would who want one?
23:33
Abby Jerchower
Why would the Illuminati want the Russian Revolution?
23:38
Matthew Bastian
They work. I don't know. They work in mysterious way. That's for them to know and us not to know. Oh, I don't know.
23:47
Abby Jerchower
That's okay. A lot of knowing going on.
23:49
Matthew Bastian
A lot of knowing going on.
23:50
Abby Jerchower
Not enough believing.
23:51
Matthew Bastian
O so the modern era, the idea of a world dominating society organization has never fully left the public consciousness, but it never really started to gain real traction until around the 60s, at the height of the 1960s, like counterculture. And so the Principia Discordia is a text essentially. Essentially preaching disobedience against the status quo, utilizing practical jokes and hoaxes just to kind of stir the pot a little bit.
24:24
Abby Jerchower
Wait, this person's fun.
24:26
Matthew Bastian
Well, it was actually a book, a text. You say this person. Oh, I thought you were talking. Wait, what was the book? It was a text preaching disobedience. Disobedience.
24:37
Abby Jerchower
Wait, what was the text called?
24:38
Matthew Bastian
I mean, Principia Discordia.
24:41
Abby Jerchower
Oh, my gosh. I thought you were talking about a person.
24:44
Matthew Bastian
No, that's not a person. It'd be a weird name. It's like Elvis.
24:48
Abby Jerchower
I know there's a lot. There's been a lot of names so far that I feel like that fits. I think that's kind of a beautiful name.
24:55
Matthew Bastian
Princess.
24:56
Abby Jerchower
It sounds like someone with a lot of power.
24:58
Matthew Bastian
I feel like every name. And it's not necessarily incorrect. I'm going to say that first, but I feel like every name that ends with IYA is just automatically said to beautiful, which is. It's not even wrong, but I feel like.
25:13
Abby Jerchower
I think it's because of the discord part.
25:16
Matthew Bastian
Discordia. That's why it's beautiful.
25:19
Abby Jerchower
Oh, wait, that one also ends in iya.
25:22
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, it's Principia Discordia.
25:23
Abby Jerchower
Oh, it's a double one.
25:25
Matthew Bastian
Yeah.
25:25
Abby Jerchower
That's even more beautiful then.
25:27
Matthew Bastian
I think the idea is to just make it sound kind of like Latin. Yeah, probably that was it. But, yeah. Proponents of the text felt the world had become too rigid and too controlling and that some chaos had to be thrown into the mix to, you know, kind of jostle everything loose again, make it less constricting. So Robert Anton Wilson and Kerry Thornley wrote the fictional. The Illuminatus. The trilogy, or it's a. It's a trilogy of books, and they're all called the Illuminatus, and they all have their own names. And it attributes in the book the Assassination. The Assassination of jfk to the Illuminati, which many kind of took it to heart.
26:10
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, that one's.
26:12
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, that one's a very big one.
26:14
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
26:15
Matthew Bastian
And the books were later adapted into a stage play because it was a fictional.
26:21
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, well, yes.
26:22
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, they were fictional. So it's just like. Yeah, they did that. But it was the age of the Internet that truly propelled the conspiracy to the level that it has reached today.
26:33
Abby Jerchower
So interesting. I feel like, honestly, this whole time I've just been waiting to talk about the rise of it through the Internet because, I mean, the history is very interesting, things like that. But obviously, we're gonna connect the most to things that happened during our time here on this Earth. And I feel like the Illuminati is something that I've always been interested in, and particularly through its showings on things like television and through movies.
27:05
Matthew Bastian
I mean, it's an interesting idea. Like, that there's just, like, some secret organization that's out there, like, pulling the strings on, like, literally everything that we don't know about, but that we do. Yeah, it's.
27:19
Abby Jerchower
It's weird.
27:20
Matthew Bastian
It is. It's very weird. It's a very weird, like, middle ground of just, like, not being sure and have no real proof.
27:30
Abby Jerchower
Did you watch the Gravity Falls Illuminati episode? I feel like Gravity Falls ones, right?
27:35
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, I've seen every Gravity Falls, which. Which episode?
27:39
Abby Jerchower
I think it's one of the books. And they. President is the president. I don't remember it that well, but I remember they sneak in and everyone has, like, these capes on, and it's like, you reveal it and it's implied to be, like, similar to the Illuminati.
27:51
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, okay. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, it's like a whole cult. And they, like, erase your memory and stuff.
27:55
Abby Jerchower
Yes. Yes. That was my first exposure towards it. Do you have, like, a memory of.
28:00
Matthew Bastian
Your Illuminati first memory? Unfortunately. It's probably, like, the memes and stuff, like, whenever. It was, like, in, like, the 2000 and tens.
28:10
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, that might before the Gravity Falls one, actually.
28:13
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, that's a good point.
28:15
Abby Jerchower
But, yeah, that's not embarrassing. That's valid, I guess so.
28:18
Matthew Bastian
I don't know.
28:19
Abby Jerchower
I was being a little bit sarcastic, but.
28:21
Matthew Bastian
Oh, okay. So it is embarrassing. Was that not your first introduction?
28:25
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, probably.
28:26
Matthew Bastian
Okay, so.
28:27
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
28:28
Matthew Bastian
Anyway, question the. Now.
28:31
Abby Jerchower
I need to redeem myself.
28:32
Matthew Bastian
Yeah.
28:33
Abby Jerchower
Okay.
28:35
Matthew Bastian
Which of the following famous figures from the 1960s did one of the writers of the Illuminatus trilogy meet? A, Martin Luther King, Jr. B, Lee Harvey Oswald.
28:47
Abby Jerchower
No way.
28:48
Matthew Bastian
C, Lyndon B. Johnson, OR D, Paul McCartney.
28:54
Abby Jerchower
Paul McCartney. That's an option.
28:58
Matthew Bastian
That is an option.
28:59
Abby Jerchower
I want to say Paul McCartney so bad, because I think that would be really, really funny because all the other ones kind of, I don't know, like, government. Really? I know. I know that the Illuminati's also been very associated with, like, just celebrities, but everyone.
29:13
Matthew Bastian
I mean, this is. I mean, this is just, like, one of the writers of, like, a book series.
29:17
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
29:18
Matthew Bastian
Like, this is just like.
29:19
Abby Jerchower
I feel like he probably. Is it. Who are the writers? Like, the.
29:22
Matthew Bastian
It was Robert Anton Wilson and Carrie Thornley.
29:27
Abby Jerchower
Ooh. Okay. Do I. Can I figure out which one of.
29:31
Matthew Bastian
Them was the one that met this person? Sure.
29:35
Abby Jerchower
Okay.
29:35
Matthew Bastian
Which one? Oh. Oh, you want me to tell you? I thought you. I thought you wanted to.
29:38
Abby Jerchower
No, that will help me figure out my answer.
29:41
Matthew Bastian
Okay, it would. That's going to help you.
29:43
Abby Jerchower
Is it Carrie?
29:44
Matthew Bastian
It is Carrie. Paul McCartney, final answer. Yeah, that's incorrect. Take it you meant Lee Harvey Oswald. Wow, this is a whole little rabbit hole. I'm just gonna go down it real quick.
29:55
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, please.
29:56
Matthew Bastian
Okay. So he. This is all according to Kerry Thornley. I want that to be in everyone's minds as I read this. So it is official that Thornley met oswald in the U.S. in the U.S. marines in 1959. And Thornley ended up writing a book about Oswald before the assassination of John F. Kennedy.
30:19
Abby Jerchower
Wrote a book about him?
30:21
Matthew Bastian
A book about him. I don't know if it's about him specifically, but he's a fiction writer and he was very heavily inspired by Oswald.
30:28
Abby Jerchower
That's crazy.
30:29
Matthew Bastian
I know. And the premise revolved around a U.S. marine that defected to the Soviet Union.
30:34
Abby Jerchower
Oh, my God.
30:36
Matthew Bastian
I know. Before the assassin, before everything.
30:38
Abby Jerchower
Wait, that's crazy.
30:40
Matthew Bastian
He met him and talked to him, and they were like. I don't think they were exactly buddies, but they were just in the kind of the same unit.
30:47
Abby Jerchower
I believe they were a little bit close. I don't know.
30:50
Matthew Bastian
It was close enough to have conversations, but from what I understood, Oswald never really kept anyone close to him. At least according to Thornley. Wow.
31:00
Abby Jerchower
But to take an obsession over someone and then have this person do something like that. I know, that's crazy.
31:06
Matthew Bastian
To write a whole book about this guy and his experience. Insane. But when the FBI learned of the novel, they were rightfully like, okay, that's interesting. So he was asked to testify in front of the Warren Commission just to give his account of Oswald and everything. And this is the really. This is the interesting thing. Kerry Thornley confessed in 1992 on the television show A Current Affair, and that he had been involved in a conspiracy to assassinate John F. Kennedy, but would not name his conspirators. What? He confessed that on television. But here's something. I want you to remember this, okay.
31:53
Abby Jerchower
Just, like, when did he confess this again? Okay.
31:58
Matthew Bastian
He. His whole ideology, remember, is just. Is about, like, the principia. Discordia disruption.
32:06
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
32:07
Matthew Bastian
Literally, just he's trying to start stuff. That's why I think. I think he was in a good position or. No, no, he had an opportunity.
32:18
Abby Jerchower
Oh, yeah.
32:18
Matthew Bastian
I guess. An insane opportunity. A guy who already is obviously kind of into conspiracies in a way, writing a whole trilogy of books about it, and then goes on to meet Lee Harvey Oswald. Or I believe he meets.
32:35
Abby Jerchower
That's such a weird coincidence.
32:36
Matthew Bastian
I know. I believe he meets Oswald. And then everything happens with John F. Kennedy. He testifies, and then. And then I think he writes the books, but. But yeah. No, it's. I don't believe him for a second.
32:58
Abby Jerchower
I don't think I believe him either.
33:00
Matthew Bastian
It's very interesting. It's like, wow. But this guy was in a completely perfect position to say that because there was one guy, his name was Jim Garrison, I believe, and he strongly believed that Thornley was working in accordance with Oswald to do everything. And Thornley seems suspicious, but I feel.
33:26
Abby Jerchower
Like he had no power at the end of the day.
33:28
Matthew Bastian
No, I don't.
33:29
Abby Jerchower
He just got lucky with.
33:30
Matthew Bastian
Not lucky, but like, he's so lucky.
33:34
Abby Jerchower
So lucky to be friends with him. Dang it. I don't know. I just feel. I feel like very similar to what you're saying. Good position. Lying can be fun sometimes.
33:46
Matthew Bastian
Especially your whole ideology revolves around it. Yeah. I'm a guy who likes to start stuff, but also fully believe me when I say I was involved in conspiracy to kill the President. Like, I don't believe you. I don't think I do. I. I wanted to. I started like to figure it. Figuring out, like a question with Robert Anson Wilson, the other co author.
34:11
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
34:12
Matthew Bastian
And I look into. Fell off and he's like. He's kind of like a. He was a kooky guy, but he was. He was a kooky guy, but he just. He just seemed like a nice guy. Like, he was just.
34:26
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
34:26
Matthew Bastian
He'd like. People would send in letters and he'd like, respond to them and just like, wow. Yeah, he's just a nice guy. And then I go over to Kerry Thornley and he's going on national television saying, like, I worked with Lee Harvey Oswald.
34:37
Abby Jerchower
Nice guys do finish last. Because you're talking about Carrie a lot more. And was he the nice one? No.
34:44
Matthew Bastian
No.
34:45
Abby Jerchower
But was he the one getting television gigs? Yes.
34:48
Matthew Bastian
So is he the one going on national television confessing to being a part of a conspiracy theory? That's what every guy confessing in quotes. Yeah. Okay, heavy quotations there, but. Yeah. I don't know, man.
35:06
Abby Jerchower
Well, I believe it because I personally, I believe everything.
35:09
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, I believe everything, too. Wink. So fast forward today. With no shortage of corners for users of the Internet to dwell in, they share around their ideas with others within echo chambers. Places like 4chan, prominent social media websites are essentially breeding grounds for conspiracies and provide the perfect environment for them to thrive. The conspiracy of the Illuminati has many hidden pieces of iconography for theorists to latch onto and theorize about. So specifically, it really shifted towards, like, an idea that it was very demonic and satanic.
35:43
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
35:45
Matthew Bastian
And so.
35:45
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't even think about that in the original.
35:48
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, they were very, like. They were very, like, against.
35:52
Abby Jerchower
They're eating. They're drinking children's blood.
35:55
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, they are. It's true. I heard it. I heard it on 4chan.
35:58
Abby Jerchower
Oh, okay.
35:59
Matthew Bastian
That's probably true. It's got to be true. But. Yeah, but. But in the past, that. That's why it's interesting to talk about this, because in the past, they were very much, like, not remotely a really religious. Like, they were very focused on just. Just, like, general, like, knowledge and wanted to get away from what they called superstitions from the church. And so the idea that nowadays that they're heavily, so heavily associated with satanic imagery, like. Like pentagrams, goats, like, 666, like, things like that, it's. I don't know. I find that very. I find that very interesting. And shift in culture. What was that?
36:43
Abby Jerchower
I said shift in culture.
36:44
Matthew Bastian
Shifting culture. Yeah. The shifting sands. Thousands of books have been written, some claiming to be the Illuminati, with manifestos as well as ways to join.
36:55
Abby Jerchower
Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
36:58
Matthew Bastian
As well as ways to join.
36:59
Abby Jerchower
Okay.
37:01
Matthew Bastian
Canada's former defense chief alleged that there was actually a secret cabal that's running the world. Oh, yeah. But I don't know, maybe he read Principia Discordia and was very interested in that too.
37:14
Abby Jerchower
I. I'm interested in that now. I think the name is really gone to me. I really like just such a beautiful name. It is. I thought it was like a princess at first. Oh, like a royal. Royal person.
37:28
Matthew Bastian
Yeah.
37:29
Abby Jerchower
Would you name your kid that? Be honest.
37:31
Matthew Bastian
Principia Discordia.
37:32
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
37:33
Matthew Bastian
Like, is it. Is that, like, one name or is it, like, first name, middle name, first name, middle name, first name, middle name.
37:40
Abby Jerchower
So Principia would be what you called them?
37:43
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, I think Principia is nice. I like that. What about you?
37:46
Abby Jerchower
Good answer. That would be my answer to it. That's why I asked. They've been talking about how good the name is.
37:51
Matthew Bastian
Of course I would. But. Yeah, so I don't. I don't know. I don't know about.
37:57
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, I don't know anything.
37:58
Matthew Bastian
I don't know anything. But the. So now we move into something called the New World Order. Wait, so. Yeah, right. Look at that. Look at that.
38:11
Abby Jerchower
Oh, I liked that one.
38:13
Matthew Bastian
You like that one?
38:13
Abby Jerchower
Yes.
38:14
Matthew Bastian
Well, it's essentially believed by proponents of the Illuminati conspiracy theory to be an elite force, I believe, within the Illuminati striving to bring about like a world spanning totalitarian government, suppressing dissent with the population by controlling the media, the press and democratic processes. It's like it's so. It, like it literally is the complete opposite of like actually what they were. It like it's just like not even remotely so I don't know what people think happened.
38:43
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. I'd be curious, like, know that.
38:47
Matthew Bastian
So like the timeline is like, okay, we're, we want to, we don't want any oppression or suppression at all. That's like awful. We don't like that.
38:55
Abby Jerchower
Okay.
38:56
Matthew Bastian
We're going to build a whole order around getting rid of all that.
38:58
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
38:59
Matthew Bastian
And then about 200 years from now, what we're going to do is we're actually going to be for that and we want to be in control of that.
39:06
Abby Jerchower
Everything cycles. Next thing it's going to just be.
39:10
Matthew Bastian
They're going to be back to being nice again.
39:12
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. Everyone's going to be flexing out there in the Illuminati. Even though it's supposed to be secret. I feel like if I was a part of a secret society, I would probably still tell my close friends.
39:22
Matthew Bastian
You would?
39:23
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
39:23
Matthew Bastian
I feel like that kind of defeats. I feel like they'd kick you out.
39:25
Abby Jerchower
If they found out, but they wouldn't find out because my friends were trustworthy.
39:28
Matthew Bastian
I don't know how they work.
39:29
Abby Jerchower
If I told you I was a part of the Illuminati, would you tell anyone? And if I was like, you can't tell anyone because I would get killed.
39:35
Matthew Bastian
I'm pretty good at keeping secrets. I think I, I think I'd be okay.
39:39
Abby Jerchower
Okay, so that's good to know.
39:40
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. But what if they see you? Like, what if they have like a, like let's say you're novice and then they have a Minerval.
39:46
Abby Jerchower
They don't care about me. They would not.
39:49
Matthew Bastian
No one cares about you.
39:49
Abby Jerchower
No one cares.
39:50
Matthew Bastian
Okay, let's say you're Minerval then. And an illuminated Minerval. It's like she's like tailing you to see like what you're doing, where you're going.
39:57
Abby Jerchower
Nah.
39:58
Matthew Bastian
And then they see you tell me.
40:01
Abby Jerchower
Well, then I would risk it.
40:02
Matthew Bastian
You'd risk it?
40:03
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, because like, I would want my friends to be a part of that part of my life, I think.
40:07
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. You don't want to. You don't want to hide it. It's like an alter ego.
40:10
Abby Jerchower
Exactly. Because what if I'm like, oh, I can't get dinner because I have a Illuminati meeting.
40:14
Matthew Bastian
I have to. I have to go to See.
40:16
Abby Jerchower
If I didn't say that, people would just be like, oh, she hates us.
40:18
Matthew Bastian
That's. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. You think you're lying.
40:23
Abby Jerchower
What do you mean?
40:24
Matthew Bastian
Okay, imagine it's like, oh, I can't. I can't get dinner. I have to go to an Illuminati meeting. It's like, I don't.
40:32
Abby Jerchower
Oh, you would think I was lying.
40:33
Matthew Bastian
Like, if you just, like, said that.
40:35
Abby Jerchower
No, no. Okay, but I would. I would preface. Before we had this conversation and I brought it up so casually, I would have had a deep conversation about this.
40:42
Matthew Bastian
So I'm in the Illuminati, and I just want you to know that. Because you're my friend.
40:45
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. And I don't want you to think that I'm not trying to be friends with you anymore. It's just.
40:49
Matthew Bastian
You're just going. You're just.
40:50
Abby Jerchower
I'm just going to the Illuminati meetings, and I can't. I'm not supposed to tell you. So if I texted you, it would definitely just say, I have something to go to. But you would know, right?
40:57
Matthew Bastian
Yeah.
40:57
Abby Jerchower
I maybe use, like, a triangle emoji or something.
40:59
Matthew Bastian
I tell everyone at the tables, like, oh, she has her Illuminati meeting. Oh, don't do that. Don't do that. What's wrong with you?
41:06
Abby Jerchower
I'm gonna get murdered now.
41:08
Matthew Bastian
That's fine, though. Yeah, it's fine. It's for the order.
41:12
Abby Jerchower
It's fine. It's whatever. I would do anything for them.
41:15
Matthew Bastian
Really? Yeah. Why'd you look up?
41:18
Abby Jerchower
Because it's, like, the top of the pyramid.
41:22
Matthew Bastian
Okay.
41:23
Abby Jerchower
Anyway, triangles have a little, like, top. Have you ever thought about that?
41:27
Matthew Bastian
They have a little top.
41:30
Abby Jerchower
They have points. They have points. I'm looking up at the. At the utmost point.
41:35
Matthew Bastian
Oh, is. Okay.
41:38
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
41:38
Matthew Bastian
Is that what you were thinking when you looked up?
41:40
Abby Jerchower
Yes.
41:42
Matthew Bastian
I don't know if I believe you.
41:43
Abby Jerchower
All right. Believe everything, though.
41:45
Matthew Bastian
Believe everything. This new world order was even said by some to be controlling the US Government, which would suck a lot. I don't know. Especially if they were just, like, trying to be, like, awful now.
41:58
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. I don't think we're at the part of the cycle where they're good yet.
42:02
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, they're not yet. Not yet. Give it, like, another like, okay, it took, like, 200 years for it to get here. So we'll say something like, probably another 200 years.
42:11
Abby Jerchower
All right, listen to us right now. The government will better in 200 years.
42:16
Matthew Bastian
The government will better in 200 years.
42:18
Abby Jerchower
You have to wait a little bit.
42:19
Matthew Bastian
In fact, every world government will better because that's when they'll be controlling everything.
42:25
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, right now they're still controlling things. Which is the evil.
42:30
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, exactly.
42:31
Abby Jerchower
So just be patient, you guys. Things will turn around.
42:34
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. Everything will better soon. According to the New York Magazine, the conspiracy is no more of a plot on democracy than a way of just reading history. But doesn't necessarily mean it's a correct way of reading it. In the 1700s, there were talks and rumors of a shadow government controlling everything with, like, the Freemasons. But as geopolitical conflicts and shaping of previous world orders took place, many began to suggest this gave credence the idea of the New World Order. But now we move into. Now we move into celebrities in the Illuminati.
43:17
Abby Jerchower
Oh, excited for this one.
43:19
Matthew Bastian
All right, so talks of celebrities being in the Illuminati largely centers around those in the music industry, but there are many, like, outside of that we'll go into in a second.
43:30
Abby Jerchower
Why does it focus on music instead of, like, actors?
43:32
Matthew Bastian
Don't know. I think the music industry just has a horrible reputation in general. Like, Hollywood has a bad reputation. But then you look at the music industry and how exploitative it is, I think is the general idea. I think they just kind of latch onto it because that's the easiest one to say is, like, the worst, because you hear so many awful things about it all the time. But yeah. So members that are claimed to be part of the Illuminati order includes, but is not limited to Beyonce, of course.
44:08
Abby Jerchower
Waiting on that one.
44:09
Matthew Bastian
Jay Z. Wow.
44:11
Abby Jerchower
Both of them.
44:12
Matthew Bastian
LeBron James.
44:13
Abby Jerchower
What?
44:13
Matthew Bastian
I know.
44:14
Abby Jerchower
Wait, no. Why has he not denied these claims?
44:20
Matthew Bastian
Why doesn't he come out and say that's why he's so good at basketball? Yeah. The Order is just, like, giving him pep talks. They're teaching him ways to manipulate humans. He's, like, faking out the other people he ties.
44:32
Abby Jerchower
I heard that he speaks to the other team before.
44:38
Matthew Bastian
Let me get every shot.
44:41
Abby Jerchower
And then they become, like, brain dead, and they're like, okay, yeah, I believe this.
44:46
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, I agree. Madonna. Sorry. Par for the course. Taylor Swift, because she loves the number 13. And that's demonic, apparently. Kim Kardashian.
44:59
Abby Jerchower
I can think of it. For other Reasons.
45:01
Matthew Bastian
You can think of it for other reasons.
45:02
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, just, like, I feel like that fits her vibe. She's very famous. I don't know. All of these people are very famous.
45:09
Matthew Bastian
No, honestly, no. I do. I actually do completely understand that, like.
45:11
Abby Jerchower
Kim Kardashian, I would be more against because of the way she portrays herself. I feel like Taylor Swift portrays herself in a way that's very, like, positive and, like, perfect type of girl.
45:22
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, I. I get that.
45:24
Abby Jerchower
And that would be the perfect, like, person.
45:27
Matthew Bastian
Do you think she. Do you think she's a novice Minerval or Illuminated Minerval I think Minerval.
45:34
Abby Jerchower
She'S trying to get Illuminated Minerval and I think Travis Kelsey will get.
45:40
Matthew Bastian
But imagine, like, imagine you're an illuminated Minerval and you have your little group of Minervals and what's Taylor Swift like? I feel like you're just like Todd who works at. Works at.
45:54
Abby Jerchower
I take it back. She would definitely be an Illuminated Minerval. I'm just. Yeah, she would definitely be one. That's like prime Illuminated Minerval I think Kim Kardashian is. Is meh. In regards to being a part of the Illuminati. I'm kind of saying my opinion on how much I think that they would be a part of it.
46:12
Matthew Bastian
It feels too like. It's like.
46:16
Abby Jerchower
I feel like she'd want to be a part of the Illuminati wheel.
46:18
Matthew Bastian
The Illuminati would be like, you want it? Too bad. I'm sorry. You want it? Yeah, yeah. No, you're good. You're. You just stay out. Yeah, yeah. And then Rihanna. Oh, how do you feel about that?
46:31
Abby Jerchower
I don't know. She hasn't been releasing music for me to have any. I feel she's just been so, like, obviously she's still doing a lot in regards to makeup and things like that, but I feel like she's taken a step back. Back a little bit from the music industry. So it makes me think that she would not be the best candidate for being a part of the Illuminati.
46:55
Matthew Bastian
Right. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. I guess I don't really think of the. The makeup industry. Was that. Was it.
47:03
Abby Jerchower
It's Fenty. Right. So it's like, make. Yeah. A lot of makeup.
47:06
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. I don't imagine people in that industry are very much like that, but yeah. Katy Perry. Oh, I believe that. Oh, yeah, definitely. And Queen Elizabeth ii.
47:19
Abby Jerchower
Oh, interesting. Bringing it back to the. The political figures.
47:26
Matthew Bastian
It's like Lee Harvey Oswald was said to be in there. Katy Perry and Paul McCartney and Lyndon B. Johnson. But, yeah, any who acknowledge the claims tend to deny them or even, like, poke fun. Madonna has a song titled Illuminati and incorporated lyrics into it, such as, it's like, everybody in this party shining like the Illuminati. So, you know, not really.
47:51
Abby Jerchower
So she can't be a part of it because it's supposed to be a secret.
47:54
Matthew Bastian
So she would have been gone. Exactly. She. Yeah, she would have been killed and. But shit. Also throughout the song, though, she, like, kind of tells the story of what the Illuminati was like. She talks about, like, it started with the Enlightenment.
48:06
Abby Jerchower
If you don't want to listen to this podcast, listen to the Illuminati song by Madonna, and that will basically tell you all the history that Matthew's been sharing with us today.
48:17
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, pretty. You can skip this. It's fine. Yeah. And theorists essentially look to Eddie and all evidence for involvement, taking interpretations from lyrics, stage design, and performance, then kind of twist them into a way that supports the overall idea that celebrities play a role. Like, for instance, being Beyonce's triangle that she held.
48:38
Abby Jerchower
That's suspicious. I don't know. I definitely have my thoughts about that.
48:42
Matthew Bastian
You do?
48:43
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. Well, not really. Like, kind of. No, I do. I feel. I feel like, why. Why'd she do that?
48:51
Matthew Bastian
Triangle, the strongest shape. So she's showing. She's trying.
48:57
Abby Jerchower
Because if you're. If you're getting Illuminati allegations and you hold up a triangle and it's not in a super joking manner.
49:06
Matthew Bastian
Right. But that's like. That's so obvious.
49:10
Abby Jerchower
Like, imagine it's like, it's not obvious enough, though. Like, it's obvious, but it's. It's not. Straight up saying, I'm in the Illuminati.
49:17
Matthew Bastian
I feel like. Agree to disagree. Agree to disagree. I feel like we don't have to talk about it. It's going to upset me.
49:26
Abby Jerchower
Oh, this? Really?
49:28
Matthew Bastian
No. But there's yet to be any credible evidence of the Illuminati's existence today or that suggests any famous celebrities are involved with the organization and as the Guardians. Julian. What? Julian, like the publication, the Guardian. Oh, okay. He's a philosopher. He's a British philosopher, as Julian Baggini puts it. If the Illuminati is real, it's got to be the least secret society in the universe, which.
50:05
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, yeah.
50:06
Matthew Bastian
It's like, if it. If everyone's, like, suspecting it so much.
50:10
Abby Jerchower
And then there is the idea that.
50:12
Matthew Bastian
Maybe it's like, oh, it's a conspiracy theory. To make. To make it lose credibility. That maybe they're really out there. But it's like. No, it's. It usually.
50:23
Abby Jerchower
Is it.
50:24
Matthew Bastian
Is it Occam's Razor, where it's like the. It's usually just, like, the simplest.
50:28
Abby Jerchower
Yes, that is it. Wow. Okay.
50:30
Matthew Bastian
That.
50:31
Abby Jerchower
My intelligent. Intelligent.
50:33
Matthew Bastian
Intelligent host. They call me the intelligent host. Yeah. It's. It's essentially just like. It's not that deep.
50:42
Abby Jerchower
I feel like there definitely is freaky stuff being done in Hollywood, for sure.
50:46
Matthew Bastian
Oh, yeah.
50:46
Abby Jerchower
But, like, the Illuminati is very specific.
50:49
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. It's a whole world order of totalitarianism. It's like. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think. No, people are not. People are often underestimated. But I feel like this is overestimating.
51:02
Abby Jerchower
Yes.
51:03
Matthew Bastian
Like, there's no way that would survive. And people like that are way too ambitious. So there'd be so many, like. Like insider wars and everything, like civil wars. But it's.
51:14
Abby Jerchower
No, I agree.
51:16
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. I'm glad we could come to this understanding. But would you trust someone who believes in the Illuminati conspiracy with your child?
51:24
Abby Jerchower
And that really is the question. Honestly, all of this has been leading up to.
51:28
Matthew Bastian
Yep.
51:30
Abby Jerchower
That's such a good question. Wow. How'd you come up with this? Let me think. I think. Is it. Is it, like, die hard? If you would bring it up, they'd be like, no, it's 100% real. Like, how much do they care about it being real?
51:42
Matthew Bastian
It is 100.
51:43
Abby Jerchower
Like, they talk about it a lot. Like, if you bring it up, they'll talk about it, but they don't really mention.
51:50
Matthew Bastian
Yeah. Something kind of.
51:53
Abby Jerchower
Do they want to be a part of it? Are they open to that? Or are they very.
51:56
Matthew Bastian
I feel like anyone who believes in the Illuminati conspiracy is usually, like, kind of, like, against it.
52:02
Abby Jerchower
Okay. And I wouldn't have to worry about this person, like, trying to drink my baby's blood. Yeah, Right. I think. I think I would. It's a crazy one, but for a day, if I need, like, a babysitter and I found out how they. They believe in the Illuminati, I'd be like, all right. I guess that's fine. All right.
52:23
Matthew Bastian
This guy thinks the New World Order is coming in to destroy, like, all of.
52:26
Abby Jerchower
Maybe they would protect my child even more.
52:29
Matthew Bastian
You think so?
52:30
Abby Jerchower
Yeah, because they'd be like, I can't let the Illuminati get to you. I feel like, how old's my kid? Is it a baby? Like, newborn Baby like a, like toddler to. Yeah. I feel like just be like entertained by this person and I feel like if the person, this toddler is not going to be asking them about the Illuminati, I feel like just by inherent. Like just by believing in the Illuminati, I don't think you're putting a child.
52:57
Matthew Bastian
At risk by believing everything about it.
53:01
Abby Jerchower
Yeah. I didn't even see what you did there until after you did.
53:06
Matthew Bastian
I would not. I would not trust someone who believes this theory with my child.
53:11
Abby Jerchower
Really? Yeah. For just a night.
53:15
Matthew Bastian
Maybe just a night. But it wouldn't happen again. Like, it wouldn't. Like, like I would.
53:19
Abby Jerchower
This wouldn't be your. Like go to babysitter.
53:21
Matthew Bastian
Absolutely not.
53:22
Abby Jerchower
That's not what. I don't. I agree with that. Like, this is not a. Alright, come over every Friday and you're gonna take care of my kid. But I think if I was like.
53:32
Matthew Bastian
Well, even then, like, I. Like what worries me is like it could be. Illuminati is a very. I feel like it's kind of like an entryway because it's so widespread. Everyone knows about it. I feel like. Like what? Like, what else do you believe? Like what.
53:50
Abby Jerchower
But you could say that about anything. I guess so. That's the thing is I'm comparing it to other. Which maybe I should not do, but I'm comparing it to if someone believed in a different. I'm not going to share my opinions on that because we'll find out about that stuff later. But if I don't know, I'm comparing it to other conspiracy theories and I think there's a lot worse ones that I would not trust to be near my kid.
54:11
Matthew Bastian
That's fair.
54:11
Abby Jerchower
But this one's more like it's about celebs. Like, this is not going to affect.
54:15
Matthew Bastian
My child, I don't think. Yeah, I mean, to your point when you said that it's like, like it would be more. What was it? It was more protective, I think. Oh yeah. Like that makes sense because it is like it is a very existential and large threat that like you like, they.
54:45
Abby Jerchower
Probably want to control far away. I think that's what I'm thinking of. Like it's such a. It's. Since it's more concerned now with celebrities and things like that, it's a threat that isn't going to come up. It's not like Beyonce is going to show up at the door or something like that. Like certain things that involve the world and like where we live. I'm like, yeah, no, because that's. I don't know. That's like. Right. That's with us right now. Yeah, but the Illuminati is more. I don't know. It feels like we're separate from it.
55:15
Matthew Bastian
Right.
55:16
Abby Jerchower
I don't know. I definitely. I'm not saying this is the person I would love to have my childhood hang out with.
55:22
Matthew Bastian
See, that's the thing, though. It's like, would you trust. Like, would you trust someone who believed it? Like, would you trust them?
55:35
Abby Jerchower
I'm going with my original answer. Yes.
55:38
Matthew Bastian
I don't think it would. I wouldn't try. I don't know about trust.
55:41
Abby Jerchower
That's fine. I won't fight you on this.
55:43
Matthew Bastian
All right. Agree to disagree.
55:48
Abby Jerchower
All right. Come to our boxing match next. Next Wednesday.
55:51
Matthew Bastian
Yeah, guys, it's gonna be awesome.
55:52
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
55:53
Matthew Bastian
Gonna lose. But that's all for today, guys. Thank you all so much for joining us.
56:04
Abby Jerchower
Yes. Thank you guys so much. This is. This is so exciting, and I really hope you guys enjoyed this first episode. I had a lot of fun. Thank you, Matthew, for doing so much of the work. Like, whoever does not have to research it has such a chill job.
56:18
Matthew Bastian
I'm just so excited.
56:20
Abby Jerchower
Yeah.
56:21
Matthew Bastian
Yeah.
56:21
Abby Jerchower
You're excited for the next episode. I will see how that goes.
56:24
Matthew Bastian
But I'm not at all. I'm not.
56:26
Abby Jerchower
No. It'll be so much fun.
56:27
Matthew Bastian
And.
56:28
Abby Jerchower
Thank you, guys.
56:30
Matthew Bastian
Thank you, guys.
